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Author
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Topic: Precious LOVE in the vortex of HELL!
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Master Don Juan
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posted 09-21-2001 12:36 AM
  
After life leaves you with a painful whip of sadness, you start to convince yourself that there is no such a thing called love or that love does not truly exist. Then, after a long time of desperation, you finally meet the woman/man of your dreams. You get swept off your feet not only by the beauty, but also by the many characteristics that you find in him/her. You meet him/her as a friend, and soon to be a lover. Admiration is mutual. Respect is phenomenal. Appreciation is at its top. Love bursts without bounds.This man/woman admires everything about you. S/he falls in love with you and you both give up extremely precious things for each other, things that you never thought you would ever compromise. Your love is THAT strong. Then, the devil enters in the relationship. He is sneaky as he enters slowly. The form is doubt and distrust. Deep down, you both have so much faith towards the other person, yet, life has left you in so much pain that it makes you start to detect the littlest things about him/her to worry you. Little things happen here and there, and you start to get scared of the imperfectness of the idol you fell in love with. You start to worry about so many things and the problem starts to get of control. Your agonizing fights and games of distrust, and self-defense against accusations torture the sweet and extraordinary love that you have. At very desperate moments, you suggest counseling, you seek help from a friend, or talk to your parent, but things do not help. You try to take a break from each other, but you cannot. You feel scared to lose your lover. Remember, that is part of the doubt that you have. So, you both get stuck in a situation. Before you know it, you both become so blind to the love the other person has for you. You start to lose appreciation to the gem that you have and you start to lose respect for him/her. Life becomes impossible and the fear of another fight tomorrow becomes inevitable. Finally, abuse kicks in. Without you mean it, you abuse your relationship verbally, psychologically, mentally, or/and physically. That, then, ends a relationship between two, once strong, people. You both get out of the relationship emotionally and psychologically smashed, yet still in so much pain because you are still in love with him/her. Once again, even worse, you lose faith in love and life. You look at the next man/woman and you do not know what to think. You ask yourself questions, �Could I have done it better?� �Should I consider it an experience and a lesson in life? How can I when the last time I loved someone was years ago?� or, �Should I consider this as a true chance to be away and learn my mistakes so I can get back in the relationship healthier?� It is interesting and educating to see what you think you should do about a relationship that you feel it has reached its bottom, yet, you are still in deep and tantalizing love. Your comments please! [This message has been edited by Anything But Tamed (edited 09-21-2001).] IP: 63.210.122.112 |
Moderator
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posted 09-21-2001 10:30 AM
Moved to 'Tips'IP: 66.65.106.166 |
Don Juan
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posted 09-21-2001 12:56 PM
Love is very precocious, my friend. It comes to some easily. To the untrusting, a little harder. Nevertheless, it comes when it comes. You are asking the question on how to make it last. It is the hardest task and the includes sacrifices on both partners to a very high degree. It takes a LOT of hard work. The hardest part is ACCEPTANCE. No one is perfect, yet when we meet that "love", that is what we associate with that person, the "one", the "perfect" mate. It can be shocking and an eye-opener when we start to realize that there are certain things we don't agree with or even like about our significant other. This is where acceptance is needed. Most will try to "change" our partner, not realizing that in doing so, we are in fact insulting the one we love by not accepting them as they are and basically saying, "I want you to become someone you're not". ACCEPTANCE-although difficult sometimes, it is the only way to make it last. You must accept your partners flaws and learn to live with it. If you can't learn-it WON'T work period. After ACCEPTANCE, comes another really hard task-COMMUNICATION. Yes, believe me it gets harder. Common error on both sides is the fast-paced need to "get your side" in first. Listening is no longer a factor. Instead of rational communication, it now becomes irrational behavior. The difficulty in fixing communication is that BOTH sides have to be willing to compromise and make it work. Another problem with communication is the impulsive nature of both sides to "jump to conclusions", bring up the past, "say things in the heat of anger", "blow things out of proportion, etc... These actions are all a result of "defense" in what our subconcious minds consider "wartime". They are the most dangerous and consequential actions which break off any decent form of COMMUNICATION. The trick is to "cool" off before attempting any communication at all. Both sides need that time, some more than others, to take a "break" and get back to "normal". BOTH partners MUST at least respect the other's time needed to accomplish this-if the "love" is strong, the respect will be there. If not, then it won't work out-period. Hope this has helped.IP: 199.174.223.177 |
Master Don Juan
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posted 09-21-2001 01:56 PM
You're a womanaren't you ABT? Not that there is anything wrong with that! IP: 207.224.147.209 |
Master Don Juan
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posted 09-22-2001 02:43 PM
BigBill,
not at all.Reality,
I agree with you. Acceptance and communication. Acceptance has to do with a certain understanding of reality and that things are just what they are and they rarely change to how we want them to. The stronger that conviction is, the better and stronger our acceptance is. As for communication, it has to do with a strong desire to understand the other person and allowing that person to truly enter our heart and mind. It has to do with our strong desire to find the only key(s) to that person's mind, and to try all things to make the other person see who we are about and what we think. That has to come AFTER we have looked into the other person's feelings and thoughts. It has to come last, or else, it communication won't work. To some, acceptance is a much easier task than communication. To me, communication is a far easier task than acceptance. I have a very hard time accepting things as they are and that can lead to so many problems. It becomes so hard to distinguish between what is changeable and what is not. Sometimes, this unacceptance comes from the fact that I believe that if there is a little fixable problem now, we might as well make it visible and work on it early on before it becomes a real problem. However, that can complicate things later. IP: 209.245.77.86 |
Master Don Juan
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posted 09-23-2001 09:10 AM
You can love whom you chose to love. It is not some feeling, but a way you treat that person. Feelings come and go, and are unreliable. A choice is not.IP: 206.141.240.138 |
Master Don Juan
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posted 09-23-2001 05:12 PM
Sir_Chancealot,
I beg to differ. Feelings are unreliable when they are used as ground for a logical argumnet, but that is not the case with love, my friend.
It is unreliable for a jury to depend on feelings that get stirred to judge the pace of reality in a criminal case. It is unreliable to use feelings as a justification for legal claims, scientific studies, social research, etc. And it is not reliable to use love as the only measure to look at a relationship, but it sure is the most important component.
You can choose who to be with, but not who you will love. If you stay with a partner that meets a basic set of acceptable criteria, you can develop strong attachment with the presense of understanding and committment, but that is different from the spark of love that get triggered with a mate that you did not plan for. That kind of spark comes from uncontrollable emotions. They are emotions that have developed out of inner needs that we do not truly have a grasp of. Needs that are burried inside of our subconcious.
We see a person, his/her looks, the way s/he talks, the way the go about things, and we feel so attracted. That is a big thing. If understanding, communication, committment are a constant, you end up with a great relationship. However, if you those are not present, then, what you have is a simple infatuation that does not go any further than itself.IP: 63.210.125.26 |
Master Don Juan
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posted 09-23-2001 06:42 PM
I agree. If Love were something you could turn on and off at will, my wouldn't life be nice. I could go out and find some fat ugly girl with no teeth, and 'choose' to fall madly in love with her and be happy as hell. sorry man, that isn't the way it works. could you all of a sudden 'decide' that you were going to be attracted to men? Of course not. I've been attracted to women since a long time before I had any idea what to do with them so I'm convinced that its sort of hard-wired into you. You can choose to commit to another person and tokeep your commitment, sure. I think its harder to do in this country since ther is absolutley no social stigma whatsoever about divorce or cheating or any of that. I would have to disagree about choosing to love someone though. I have twin girls and my life would be easier in many ways if I could decide not to give a damn about them, but that could naver hapen.
IP: 216.161.46.181 |
Master Don Juan
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posted 09-27-2001 10:47 PM
Your definitions of "love" must be very shallow indeed. So "love" is just a feeling right? By your own definition, once that temporary feeling is over (and it ALWAYS ends, sooner rather than later), you are no longer "in love". You don't "love" that woman. What you are actually describing is infatuation or lust, or both, but certainly not love.
IP: 206.141.244.98 |
Master Don Juan
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posted 09-28-2001 12:44 AM
Whose definition?IP: 209.245.79.167 |
Master Don Juan
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posted 09-29-2001 01:08 AM
He's talking about me.Well chance, I think that 'lust infatuation or both' is a damned important part of the 'lovve' that you will feel for a woman in a relationship. If I'm wrong, then I want to see you go out and find the homeliest, ugliset, nerdiest girl around. one with lots of brains and character but totally physically repulsive, and start a relationship. After all it isnt infatuation that counts right? That's far beneath you. Lust is for mere cretins and evolutionary rejects like me. Sure you can love a relative or even a good friend with a totally non-sexual love. but for a relationship, i say if the person doesn't turn you on, at least in the beginning, you are going to have a rough go of it.
IP: 209.181.118.144 |
Master Don Juan
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posted 09-29-2001 04:18 PM
This article did not intend to define love, yet it is not a bad idea after all. Let it be known that love is a vague idea. I can think of it as special and mixed feelings that get stirred for one person in particular over the rest. Unless you have experienced them, it is hard for you to believe it. Yes, you can dicect every single feeling and discredit it as non-love. However, all these feelings in their totality make up what you consider in your heart as love.Think of it this way: you meet a woman that attracts you so much to the point that when you look into her eyes, you feel you just want to hold her, kiss her, and lick her. When are with her you feel so much comfort, and when she talks, you feel there is so much completion happening within yourself. Psychologists will be glad to race to define all that for you, nevertheless, only you can tell that this is what you have never had and what you have been waiting for. Finally, at the core of love, there resides the sexual desire. IP: 63.210.121.148 |
Master Don Juan
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posted 09-30-2001 11:03 PM
quote:
Originally posted by BigBill:
He's talking about me.Well chance, I think that 'lust infatuation or both' is a damned important part of the 'lovve' that you will feel for a woman in a relationship. If I'm wrong, then I want to see you go out and find the homeliest, ugliset, nerdiest girl around. one with lots of brains and character but totally physically repulsive, and start a relationship. After all it isnt infatuation that counts right? That's far beneath you. Lust is for mere cretins and evolutionary rejects like me. Sure you can love a relative or even a good friend with a totally non-sexual love. but for a relationship, i say if the person doesn't turn you on, at least in the beginning, you are going to have a rough go of it.
Nowhere did I say, nor even IMPLY that attractiveness, lust, or even infatuation don't play a part in courtship. What I said was that love has nothing to do with feelings. When I say "love", I mean real love, not some illusory, day-dream sort of love that seems to be so popular today. If lust is for cretins and evolutionary rejects, well, count me in, because I've been there (and intend on going back!  ) What I'm saying is this: In a marriage, there are going to be times that you can't stand to even be in the same house as your wife (and vice-versa). Your marriage WILL go through rocky periods. Do you just bail because "that feeling" isn't there anymore? Many people do. Guys that have been married know EXACTLY what I am talking about here. My wife was a very flawed woman, one that I wouldn't have chosen to marry had I the experience that I now have. I decided to love her anyway. So, you see, I don't make this statement from any intellectual or high-brow position. I make that statement from my life's experience. I will say this, though. Given the "perfect" woman personality-wise, would I rather have a good looking woman, or an ugly one? A good looking one, of course. Given the choice between a really hot chick who is a b*tch, and would treat me like sh*t, and an ugly girl who would treat me like a king, I'd have no problem with the ugly chick. Having been in the first position, I'm not to keen on going back there. But that is why I am here. To get the best of both worlds. IP: 206.141.244.108 |
Master Don Juan
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posted 10-01-2001 12:13 AM
Love is so hard to pin downthat a lot of things get lumped in that have nothing to do with it. when you talk about a marriage lasting through the tough times I don't beleive that has anything to do with loving another person. That is something people do because of a standard they set for themselves about honoring their commitment to the family they started. there are quite a few loveless marriages out there. I'd say probobly most of them are that way from tim to time. If you have a 'love' relationship, great, enjoy it. it wont last forever despite what some poets and women will tell you. the question to ask is 'what will happen after the 'love' is gone? IP: 207.224.149.227 |
Master Don Juan
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posted 10-01-2001 07:26 PM
Sir_Chancealot,
I do give you a lot of credit for the sense of commitment that you have and the mature realization of what marriage and a good relationship is about, but I do think that you are in denial to what love is about.Love has NOTHING to do with marriage. There are SO many marriges without love. I disagree with you. I will not choose an ugly woman that treats me like a kind over a hot woman that will treat me like crap. I will choose neither. I would rather live unhappily UNmarried rather than live unhappily married. You may choose to stay in a particular marriage or a relationship to various ethical and realistic reasons, but do not use love as a cover. Love is a force that can change you without you realizing it. It can make you cross many red lines you have set to yourself and go distances that you promised to never go. The moment you can control love, it is not love anymore. Cheers. IP: 64.156.145.203 |
Master Don Juan
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posted 10-01-2001 10:20 PM
Anything but tamed: You have done what is called "moving the goalpost". You weren't given the option of staying single. For purposes of the argument, you had two choices. You cannot add a third.I know what you two guys are saying. If it had been a scant 6 months ago, I would probably be agreeing with you. I think that I have a perspective and experiences that lend me a better view of this subject than perhaps you guys have. I do not say that in a condescending or some "holier-than-thou" attitude. I had to bury my wife almost 4 months ago. That kind of forces you to take stock, and question all that you thought you knew. It also forces you to mature in a way that nothing else can. Let's just say that we agree to disagree, and leave it at that. I'd much rather debate the merits of neg-hits and call back time anyway! But I'm glad you guys voiced your opinions! IP: 206.141.244.248 |
Master Don Juan
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posted 10-02-2001 01:46 AM
Sir_Chancealot,
I respect your opinion regardless of what it is. No, I did not precieve your comments to be condescending. No one's experience in life should be belittled. I actually did not change the goalpost. No. Your feedback was intellectual and came out of a real life experience. However, my question was not about how to stay in a relationship just because of the ethical and moral committment it implies, but rather on how to actually refuel the fire of love. It is about what to do to gain back the once existing passion, respect, faith and trust.IP: 63.212.138.145 |
Master Don Juan
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posted 10-02-2001 10:30 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Anything But Tamed:
Sir_Chancealot,
I respect your opinion regardless of what it is. No, I did not precieve your comments to be condescending. No one's experience in life should be belittled. I actually did not change the goalpost. No. Your feedback was intellectual and came out of a real life experience. However, my question was not about how to stay in a relationship just because of the ethical and moral committment it implies, but rather on how to actually refuel the fire of love. It is about what to do to gain back the once existing passion, respect, faith and trust.
Ah, then that would be my mistake! I agree. If you can gain that back (or better yet, keep it) then all the better! IP: 206.141.240.173 |
Don Juan
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posted 04-05-2002 12:26 PM
Yes, this is an old post, but it motivated me to respond. I think that most people are confused about love (not any of the above posters, all great stuff). They 'think' they are in love, but are not.Example, my friend says 'he loves his girlfriend', yet he cheats on her constantly.. Hmm.. I don't think he knows what the f*ck he's talkin about. What he loves is -- the way she makes him feel about himself
-- the sex
-- being able to have sex whenever he wants
-- the feeling (what i believe to be a false feeling) of being 'complete' i think this feeling of being complete comes from not having to wonder where your next piece of a$$ is coming from, lol I think a lot of other emotions are mistaken for love. Or a combination of emotions. Contentment, infatuation, excitement, attraction, etc., im sure there are much more, but for the sake of brevity, there ya go.
And so people think 'Whoopee! I'm in love!' Then they get married, turn bitter, get divorced, live w/regret, etc., etc. This even happens with true love, I would think mostly for guys because 'little you' is mad that you gave it the same meal everynight for most of your life. Shallow but true.
Well, I've rambled long enough, peace! IP: 216.54.14.246 |
Master Don Juan
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posted 04-05-2002 12:30 PM
I agree 100% with Sir_Chancelot on this one.IP: 66.56.8.110 | |
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